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Thread: New Class 0?

  1. #1
    Addicted to RC STANG KILLA SS's Avatar
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    Exclamation New Class 0?

    i brought this up a year or two ago to SORCCA and it was immidiatly shot down.
    well this came back up at the belton trail run and Tommy showed some interest. well i was PMing Ray yesterday and he showed some interest in it as well. i also would be interested and have had one started for awhile.

    whats everyones thoughts on this?


    here are some ideas that came across my mind. not saying these are the rules. just things that could be talked about here to specify the class, or leave out all together.

    * Daily Driver Look
    * no body mods/factory fender cuts
    * no WB stretch
    * max WB or width?
    * 3.99" tire max?
    * 75%-100% tire coverage? 1/4"-3/8"?
    * 1.9 max, would prefer 1.55 but due to lack of choices and offets probly not a good idea?
    * TLTs, yotas, K-44 etc. pin to pin max?
    * ban axials? due to width and under/over drive
    * manditory leafs? 1 axle or 2? way out there i know. pushin it too far probly?
    * competitive class or trail runners?
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  2. #2
    Administrator sgtsteve's Avatar
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    Good ideas here Cory. Regardless if this was a trail runner class or comp class I dont think we should limit a few things on your list. Here are my opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS View Post
    * Daily Driver Look - Absolutely
    * no body mods/factory fender cuts - Agreed
    * no WB stretch - Stick to the wheelbase of the stock body, yes
    * max WB or width? - no set max WB/width - as long as it's 1/8-1/12 scale
    * 3.99" tire max? - I like this one, probably the most out of scale feature on any scaler. As long as there is a decent choice of tires in this range. Could almost do a spec tire, but then that opens a whole other series of issues. Perhaps if we had a vendor that could get a set of 10 at a decent discount for the club, if we go this route of couse.
    * 75%-100% tire coverage? 1/4"-3/8"? Agreed
    * 1.9 max, would prefer 1.55 but due to lack of choices and offets probly not a good idea? Agreed, need more 1.55 beadlock options
    * TLTs, yotas, K-44 etc. pin to pin max? Nah - keep axials, my H2 on zero offset rims fits flush or within 1/8". Besides, cost and parts availability would be enough to keep many from getting into it.
    * ban axials? due to width and under/over drive - ban OD/UD, sure, ban axials, no
    * manditory leafs? 1 axle or 2? way out there i know. pushin it too far probly? I like it but unrealistic. Cost and complexity would keep too many from getting into it.
    * competitive class or trail runners?
    Trail runners for a season, sprinkle them in a few comps to run wth Class 1, take lots of pics and videos of them in action and then have a case to make to SORRCA to include class 0.


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  3. #3
    Addicted to RC Tommy R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS View Post
    i brought this up a year or two ago to SORCCA and it was immidiatly shot down.
    well this came back up at the belton trail run and Tommy showed some interest. well i was PMing Ray yesterday and he showed some interest in it as well. i also would be interested and have had one started for awhile.

    whats everyones thoughts on this?


    here are some ideas that came across my mind. not saying these are the rules. just things that could be talked about here to specify the class, or leave out all together.

    * Daily Driver Look
    * no body mods/factory fender cuts
    * no WB stretch
    * max WB or width?
    * 3.99" tire max?
    * 75%-100% tire coverage? 1/4"-3/8"?
    * 1.9 max, would prefer 1.55 but due to lack of choices and offets probly not a good idea?
    * TLTs, yotas, K-44 etc. pin to pin max?
    * ban axials? due to width and under/over drive
    * manditory leafs? 1 axle or 2? way out there i know. pushin it too far probly?
    * competitive class or trail runners?
    I really like the idea of a Class 0. I'm actually a bit concerned, however, that if we "recognize" it as a class, it'll gradually migrate to people doing the bare minimum to make the rules in the name of performance. From a local standpoint, this doesn't concern me, but nationally that's another story. Regardless, I think it's something we can play around with locally to see how things go. :thumbsup: Here's my thoughts... I basically agree with everything proposed, with the folliowing exceptions:

    * No WB/track width limit. Look at Ray's D110. That rig is the epitomy of C0. :mrgreen:
    * I'd say maybe allow 1/4" tire protrusion per side, max? Maybe 1/8" per side? Maybe give bonus points for 100% coverage? :cool2:
    * No wheel diamater max. Some 1.9s look pretty scale on larger rigs, IMO.
    * Likewise, don't ban Axials 'cause they're great for larger rigs, HOWEVER, no OD/UD gearing of any sort. :thumbsup:
    * No mandartory leafs. Using SORRCA rules, they'll get rewarded for them anyway.
    * Maybe a mandatory, realistic looking driver?

    One issue is course setup. Our courses are typically too difficult (IMO) for C1 so we likely couldn't re-use them for C0. We'd need dedicated courses instead. That being said, it would be easiest to set up courses for them since they need less intense terrain, which is most common.

    Whether or not we make C0 an official "local class", I'm planning on building one. I think as soon as my C1 LJ is complete, I'll start on it. Woo!

    BTW, Cory, I send you an e-mail this morning. Check it out and let me know. :thumbsup:

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  4. #4
    Addicted to RC STANG KILLA SS's Avatar
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    Steve:

    the other reason for keeping axials would be a stock JK. they are perfect for that body too.
    no way to check for/police UD/OD, but i think you can tell by the axle pinion 5mm output. they are different than the stock cast ones i believe. not really a big deal especially if trail runners.
    i agree with you on the leafs. even simple things with them are a PITA. like adjusting/getting wheelbase perfect and ride height are much more difficult. we could increase the points value for them? or leave alone.

    agreed on no WB or width limit. scale, tire size and coverage should take car of things.

    would also need to add no tire mods to the list. ie siping lug removal etc. reducing might be left legal to get more tires legal?

    crew cab etc body mods could be written in to make legal.

    here is a list of legal scale tires under 4" from rc4wd. tamiya has 2 legal tires too.
    1.9 mud thrashers
    1.9 dirt grabber
    1.9 prowler
    1.9 rock creeper
    1.9 mud slinger
    1.9 dick cepek
    1.9 tomahawk
    1.5 dirt grabber
    1.5 mud thrashers
    1.5 rock crushers
    1.5 desert king
    1.5 MT MTZ
    Tamiya BFG
    Tamiya High Lift
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  5. #5
    Addicted to RC STANG KILLA SS's Avatar
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    Tommy:

    great! yeah this thread was more focused on local use and trail run for time being. national proposal and competition use could be addressed later. we may find we never want it to go that far due to fun levels?

    haha yeah maybe we should have a body roll minimum haha.
    your tire coverage ideas sound good.
    you say no wheel diameter max, but dont mention 2.2s. they should be banned i think. 1.9 max is fine.
    i like the manditory driver idea. this would of course need a manditory interior rule for the points cheaters. that being said my C0 k5 build has a 2D proline interior. so it would only be able to have shoulders up. good enough?, or 3D required with knee up minimum driver?
    agreed. C0 would defiantly require special courses. realistic obsticals/ climbs should be kept in mind. ie max 4"ish climbs no rear bumper draging, winch straight vertical stuff.
    didnt get your email but i only keep my work one open, ill check the personal.

    keep the ideas flowing fellas!
    2008 TXRCRCA Super Class State Champ
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  6. #6
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    What about a weight limit per tire/wheel combo? Obviously, scale/realism is huge. However, if you really want to reduce performance/even the playing field, why not make a set max weight per wheel/tire combo?

  7. #7
    Addicted to RC STANG KILLA SS's Avatar
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    great and cool idea. probly too much work to enfore in the field.

    on an unrelated note. should there be provisions to allow the tamiya wrangler, bronco etc? CC-01 etc. would be awesome drop-in C0. ie like the honcho is for beginers in C2.
    http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=84071
    http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=58469
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  8. #8
    Addicted to RC Tommy R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS View Post
    Tommy:

    great! yeah this thread was more focused on local use and trail run for time being. national proposal and competition use could be addressed later. we may find we never want it to go that far due to fun levels?

    haha yeah maybe we should have a body roll minimum haha.
    your tire coverage ideas sound good.
    you say no wheel diameter max, but dont mention 2.2s. they should be banned i think. 1.9 max is fine.
    i like the manditory driver idea. this would of course need a manditory interior rule for the points cheaters. that being said my C0 k5 build has a 2D proline interior. so it would only be able to have shoulders up. good enough?, or 3D required with knee up minimum driver?
    agreed. C0 would defiantly require special courses. realistic obsticals/ climbs should be kept in mind. ie max 4"ish climbs no rear bumper draging, winch straight vertical stuff.
    didnt get your email but i only keep my work one open, ill check the personal.

    keep the ideas flowing fellas!
    I would think a 1.9 max wheel size would work. :thumbsup: For interiors, I think we'll need to work on that. But I suspect 2D interiors should work.

    I was going to propose no Lexan bodies! :redfinger:

    Quote Originally Posted by spankbomb View Post
    What about a weight limit per tire/wheel combo? Obviously, scale/realism is huge. However, if you really want to reduce performance/even the playing field, why not make a set max weight per wheel/tire combo?
    Not a bad idea! Of course, I wouldn't expect us to actually weigh at an event, however, I think we're all pretty honest here and a gentlemen's agreement should suffice to keep wheel weights in check.

    In fact, I was tempted to say "no additional weight can be added to axles or wheels", but that's not too fair to those with plastic wheels. That being said, I think we can apply this rule to axles (no beef toobz) and incorporate a max limit for wheel/tire combos.

    I think a good starting point would be a standard TSS or Locked Up aluminum wheel with a 4" tall tire and two stage foams. Make that the max weight and call it good. Lighter wheels will be able to add a bit of weight.

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  9. #9
    Addicted to RC Tommy R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS View Post
    great and cool idea. probly too much work to enfore in the field.

    on an unrelated note. should there be provisions to allow the tamiya wrangler, bronco etc? CC-01 etc. would be awesome drop-in C0. ie like the honcho is for beginers in C2.
    http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=84071
    http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=58469
    I'd say they'd be fine if they add a 2D interior.

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  10. #10
    Addicted to RC STANG KILLA SS's Avatar
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    haha im always 100% for baning lexan.
    lol in this instance it would shoot me in the foot though.

    axle(beef tubes) and wheel weights, honestly i could care less about.
    ive never tried it, but i assume throwing 3 full wraps of lead at some point there is a point of no return isnt there? and with the narrowness we may wish we were alowed to tune weight to prevent spending all day on your roof. the weight limit is not a big factor/deal to me personally. no comp knuckle weights etc obviously.

    i think i would be against a spec wheel or tire. id prefer to see everyones personaly tastes, styles (and budgets?) show. i like veriety.
    2008 TXRCRCA Super Class State Champ
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